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Post by JRobinson on Sept 21, 2005 6:43:46 GMT -6
HAHAHA!!! Job well done.
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Post by JRobinson on Sept 21, 2005 6:48:37 GMT -6
And yes--the victimized heroine is very overdone. I guess the heros as well <--that would be me. But isn't this the very core of human nature?
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Post by Ella on Sept 21, 2005 6:50:49 GMT -6
You're right, Ella. And maybe it just depends on how you state something. There's a big difference in saying, "That was so stupid." and saying "It confused me." Exactly! If anyone ever thinks "That was stupid" is proper feedback, they need to be kicked in the ass. Haha! Your victims are always in highly original situations, though. I think that's why they don't strike me as typical victimized heros. But, I will let you know once I get JAV finished. You are depriving me of sleep because of that story, I'll have you know.
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Post by Ella on Sept 21, 2005 6:56:39 GMT -6
Personally, I need that pat on the back. And granted, feedback is slim to none these days compared to the past. But stroking my ego won't result in a story coming out in anyone's favor. My original vision rarely changes, though feedback from readers has "tweaked" a character or story development. I think we all need a pat on the back occasionally (I've had my fair share of fits, and people have patiently calmed me down). I was more referring to the girls who email me and ask me for feedback. I can always tell the ones who really want to improve and the ones who just want me to tell them they're great. That's why I always tell girls to send me a list of questions about their story that deal with issues they're concerned about. That ALWAYS gives it away. The ones who half-ass it (or don't bother doing it at all) are the ones who aren't serious about it. My theory is, if you want me to do a little work to help you, then you're gonna have to do a little work to get me started. And it is a shame that I wasn't around in the Days of Bountiful Feedback! I hopped on this wagon right after it passed that, I think.
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Post by JRobinson on Sept 21, 2005 7:14:01 GMT -6
That's why I always tell girls to send me a list of questions about their story that deal with issues they're concerned about. That ALWAYS gives it away. The ones who half-ass it (or don't bother doing it at all) are the ones who aren't serious about it. Excellent idea! I'm sorry, too. Because it was what drove me to write and write and write back then. So, let me just give you some myself... You managed to suck me in so fast with your vivid descriptions in the Prologue alone. I liked the characters immediately and felt as if I were sitting among them. I'm not done reading, but feel as if you have something you can be very proud of. ~J
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Post by akimbie on Sept 21, 2005 8:38:17 GMT -6
And it is a shame that I wasn't around in the Days of Bountiful Feedback! I hopped on this wagon right after it passed that, I think. LoL I don't think I was around in the days of bountiful feedback! Perhaps the bountiful feedback days were the prehistoric ones. I don't know, I've fallen into te habit of reading stories that I think, technically, are terrible but the plot has kind of just dragged me along. In that situation sending feedback like "Terrible writing but nice plot" (in much better English) seems strange. I don't know how it's possible to give feedback on something that's bad in a constructive way.
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Post by Brittney on Sept 21, 2005 11:25:51 GMT -6
I think I'm guilty of one-liner comments as well, but for me to even leave a comment in the first place is sort of monumental in itself because I don't read nearly as much as I used to, but I can definitely understand being frustrated after giving feedback - especially when someone else butts in when it's not their story. Sometimes I wonder if ItsIncredible.com is just place to massage each other's ego. I don't mean to bash them because I really haven't visited the site that often, but every time I have it just seems as if the feedback is always the same.
I did read this one thread before, and it kind of amused me because I'd wondered about some of these things myself. Although I probably wouldn't have said it in such a harsh way.
Okay, I don't necessarily agree with the part about having a webpage because someone who is an amazing writer might not have the first clue about HTML. I didn't know to make one for a long time. (I'm not saying I'm amazing. I know I'm not - just to make that clear.) I started out posting on fanfiction.net and Yahoo Groups while I was still learning to how to put together a webpage, so forums are probably a good place to start if you have no place else to put your work.
As for talking about "the best fan fics out there" that's up in the air because everyone has their own opinion on what's the best, but I can understand the discussion part because "I LOVE IT I LOVE IT!!! WRITE MORE!" doesn't do much in the way of improvements.
Sure it's nice to hear those things, but half the time I'm begging people to give me some real feedback. I want to know what I'm doing wrong because I want to get better at writing. I imagine people probably have the same reservations as myself though - they don't want to hurt someone's feeling or look like they're insult them. And I know some people just can't seem to take criticism without throwing a huge fit and making a rant insulting the reviewer, which is sad because I think it scares people away from reviewing other people's stories.
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Post by krystal on Sept 21, 2005 16:56:09 GMT -6
I must be a kind hearted reviewer, because I have yet to have anyone insulted by it. Of course, I'm easier on the bad-grammar folks than some others. It really is very much about plot for me. If they've got a great imagination--they'll make themselves get better at that (at least the majority). I've watched a lot of writers in this community get better and better (including a lot of you in this post) and it's a wonderful thing!
So, I let people know what they've left me wondering about. If I see a lot of mistakes, I tell them they've got typos (though technically, a lot are not actually typos)--I just figure they'll get the hint.
Ella! So glad I could have you go to work with dark circles under your eyes!! That's a good sign, I'd think. Or maybe, you're just afraid of things that go bump in the night!
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Post by Ella on Sept 21, 2005 21:41:01 GMT -6
That's why I always tell girls to send me a list of questions about their story that deal with issues they're concerned about. That ALWAYS gives it away. The ones who half-ass it (or don't bother doing it at all) are the ones who aren't serious about it. Excellent idea! It really works! So feel free to steal it whenever some random girl asks you to read her stuff... hehe. Wow, thanks. That means a lot coming from a legend! Good luck finishing it, it'll take a month! haha. Krystal -- I'm off right now to add to the Raccoon eyes. As if I didn't look bad enough! sheesh!
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Post by KatieHanson on Sept 27, 2005 1:07:00 GMT -6
Hmm, well usually when I see someone post a story and everyone is gushing over how good it is and I think otherwise, I don't make a comment cos I don't want to hurt their feelings and I know other ppl would probably jump down my throat for saying something bad.
I think I'm incredibly picky when it comes to reading hanfic anyway (there's just so many), that I think I might be too harsh anyhow for my commetns to be informative.
There's such a lack of originality in hanfic nowadays that I can't seem to get into any anymore. (Even the supposive original ones) And that's sad.
BTW I notice you're all talking about a lack of real critiques for stories but I rarely see any of you actually critiquing either and I know some of you have things to say (hint Ella and krystal)
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Post by krystal on Sept 27, 2005 5:18:03 GMT -6
I'm sure you're right. I'm probably as guilty as everyone else. Well, not really. I do give feedback more than 75% of readers. One of my problems is I'm too involved in too many groups, communities, etc. I'm spread to thin to give the kind of feedback I'd like to. And, after all these years, I've finally gotten to where I don't give feedback to people who don't do the same for me (when I'm on a group, etc.). I think after eight years of following these characters, the plots have become a bit humdrum as you (or someone) said. I'm not moved to write to authors like I used to. I think there are phases the community goes through and right now, we're in a slash phase. I read it, and there are some that I really enjoy. But after reading the 34th Taylor/Zac pairing of the week, they start to blend together (though I have to hand it to those authors--the plots have improved greatly--I'm glad some of us realized that a relationship like that probably wouldn't just go off without a hitch). Seriously, I realized the other day that in the last 48 hours, I'd read more than 150 chapters of Zac/Taylor love. I'm behind in a lot of stuff!! I'm working on it!
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Post by Ella on Sept 27, 2005 6:52:18 GMT -6
Hmm, well usually when I see someone post a story and everyone is gushing over how good it is and I think otherwise, I don't make a comment cos I don't want to hurt their feelings and I know other ppl would probably jump down my throat for saying something bad. I think I'm incredibly picky when it comes to reading hanfic anyway (there's just so many), that I think I might be too harsh anyhow for my commetns to be informative. There's such a lack of originality in hanfic nowadays that I can't seem to get into any anymore. (Even the supposive original ones) And that's sad. BTW I notice you're all talking about a lack of real critiques for stories but I rarely see any of you actually critiquing either and I know some of you have things to say (hint Ella and krystal) That is true. Years ago, I used to leave a lot more feedback, when I wasn't writing so much. But nowadays, honestly, I read very little fanfic. Not because there's not some great new stuff out there, but mainly because of time constraints (and yes, my impatience). Honestly, I can't multi-task. I'm not trying to be rude or snotty or anything, but I found that I am completely incapable of keeping up both the hardcore reading and hardcore writing at the same time. So now I'm trying to catch up and read some stuff now while I'm on a break (I'm currently entrenched in 'Just Another Victim', mmm, vampire Taylor ). However, for the past year especially, I had a choice -- read others' stories, or get my own finished. And I chose to finish my own. For sanity's sake. I also generally don't think I have much to say when it comes to feedback. I feel pretty useless leaving 'Hey, this is great' type messages for people, since most of them would rather have a reply with a little thought put in it. But then, I know it's always nice to at least hear that someone is reading your stuff, so I dunno. I think I'm just a terrible person. And referencing the first part of your post here, I don't trust other people's opinions on stories anymore, anyway, because I've had the whole 'everyone-loves-this-but-I-think-it-sucks' thing happen to me all too often. I consider myself extremely picky. And impatient.
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Post by Ella on Sept 27, 2005 6:53:28 GMT -6
I was just looking at my post and realized that I need a spellcheck-type device for smileys. Sheesh! I always go overboard with those, hehe.
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Post by krystal on Sept 27, 2005 14:37:36 GMT -6
Aw, I like the smiley right after you said you're a terrible person, haha!
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Post by Barbara on Sept 27, 2005 17:51:41 GMT -6
I am only following a few stories right now. I feedback those few stories. If I'm signing a guestbook, I always try to make a comment about at least one thing that I liked about the chapter or several things if it's a whole story. If a story didn't spark more than a 'hey, that's great' comment from me, then there was nothing in the chapter/story that stood out enough to comment on. I don't like getting that kind of feedback (although I will take what I can get) and I don't like giving it either. Writing groups are the best places for feedback because you can comment on all the things that stood out in particular very easily. I like to feedback that way, but it does take a lot of time. So, I only do that for people that give me feedback as well.
I haven't really been following many stories lately, but I have read some new ones that I really like because of being a judge for the awards. I owe some feedback on those as soon as I get time, but that's kind of hard when you're trying to sort out your top fives for so many categories.
I will never feedback an author again if the only reply I get back is the automated thank you email. Why do people use those? Those are fine for some things, but if a person takes the time to leave you a personal note, I think you should do the same.
As far as negative feedback goes, there is a such thing as constructive criticism given with tact. I will point out huge plot holes, and I might even comment if I'm not believing in what a character is doing; but I try to do it without using words such as suck or stupid.
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